Cross & Gavel Audio

Explore a variety of conversations at the intersection of Faith and Law, with host Mike Schutt, director of the Christian Legal Society's Institute for Christian Legal Studies and Attorney Ministries.
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Aug 16, 2017

On this episode of Cross & Gavel, host Mike Schutt talks with Christian Legal Society's new director of Attorney Ministries, Connie Bourne. Connie comes to CLS from a private law practice, with experience in the corporate world, as a judicial clerk, and working with attorneys in a local bar association. She loves Jesus and she loves lawyers!

Listen in to get acquainted with Connie!

Connie Bourne received her undergraduate and legal training at Rutgers University, worked as Assistant County Counsel in Bergen County, New Jersey, and worked in the business, government, and public interest arenas before opening her own law firm. She joined the CLS staff on July 10, 2017. 

Cross & Gavel Audio is a project of the Institute for Christian Legal Studies, a cooperative ministry of Regent University School of Law and Christian Legal Society.

Mike Schutt is associate professor at Regent and director of ICLS and Law Student Ministries for CLS. 



Dec 20, 2016
CLS CEO Dave Nammo on Lawyers' Habits, Lawyers' Hope

The Christian Legal Society is an organization dedicated to helping lawyers think biblically and missionally about their work. Through its Law Student Ministries, Legal Aid Ministries, Attorney Ministries, and the Center for Law & Religious Freedom, CLS serves lawyers and law students as they seek to serve Christ in their law practice and study. As we think through these issues, we focus on how we steward our gifts in the law and how we love our neighbors through law practice and study.

Yet what about the shaping influences on lawyers themselves? How do our professional practices and particulars of legal training influence us as human beings Surely the law school experience, our training, billing time, and the adversary system work to influence us in specific ways.

Dave Nammo, CLS's Executive Director and CEO, has been working in law-focused ministry since 1999, and he spends much of his time on the road talking with Christian lawyers and law students. In this episode (#60), host Mike Schutt talks with Dave about the influences that shape us as lawyers and law students-- for good or ill-- and what countercultural practices might be called for in response.

Recent books, like Jamie Smith's You are What You Love and Tish Warren's Liturgy of the Ordinary, raise issues of the habits and practices necessary to "aim our loves," in the words of Smith. 

Listen in as Mike and Dave get the discussion started on how we can be more intentional in resisting the profession's shaping power, and how lawyers' habits can help "aim us" in the right direction as well. 

David Nammo is Executive Director and CEO of the Christian Legal Society in Springfield, VA. 

Host Mike Schutt is Director of CLS Law Student Ministries and Attorney Ministries. He is Associate Professor of Law at Regent University, CLS' ministry partner in the Institue for Christian Legal Studies.  


Aug 30, 2016
#57 Paul Buzzi: Sharing Jesus from the Law Office

On August 9, 1979, Paul Buzzi became a Christian by the grace of God and through the gentle teaching and evangelism of his friend Fred. Less than a week later, Jesus literally told Paul that he needed to walk over to the jail to tell his client about Him. Little did Paul know then that his client Steven would be the first of nearly three thousand clients, friends, family members, and strangers that he would lead to Christ.

In this podcast, Paul tells some of those stories, revealing a heart of compassion and humility-- rare in a lawyer-- that drives him to share the love of Christ with nearly everyone he meets. "No person has ever come to my law office without getting the opportunity to meet Jesus," says Paul. He takes seriously the apostle Paul's questions: "And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?" Paul Buzzi's vision is that all Christians would cultivate Christ's love for those that are blind to the good news. 

As you listen to Paul talk about people coming to Christ in his office, in jail cells, on the golf course, and in restaurants, you'll be encouraged and inspired to look for opportunities to share the love of Christ as you see opportunities. Paul says that he continuously "looks for the opportunity" to tell people that Jesus loves them and to ask them if they would like Jesus to forgive their sins. This is the message a hurting world needs, and Paul's story will encourage listeners to spread that story. You'll be inspired by Paul's boldness, his simple message, his humility, and his compassion. Listen in to be encouraged!

"Before I came to Christ," Paul says, "I separated my business life and my religious life. There is no separation. It's your life. And without Jesus, it's meaningless."

Paul Buzzi is an Akron, OH attorney, the principal of Buzzi Legal Services. 

Mike Schutt is the host of Cross & Gavel, and he directs both Law Student Ministries and Attorney Ministries for the Christian Legal Society. He is an Associate Professor at Regent University School of Law, where he teaches American Legal Thought. 

Mar 31, 2016

Join the Christian Legal Society staff for a roundtable discussion about the calling to minister to law students and lawyers. How did we get here? What are we doing? What does law have to do with the kingdom of Christ? 

Six CLS staffers talk around the table about their own backgrounds, mission, and convictions -- and why their work with CLS really matters. 

The discussion ranges from law school experiences, to the foundations of vocational thinking, to BigLaw issues, to work-iife balance, to cultural engagement and religious liberty and beyond. It's good, clean fun! Come and listen in. It will be a good introduction to the work of CLS if you you don't know us, and it is an edifying conversation with friends if you're already part of the family. 

David Nammo is Executive Director of the Christian Legal Society. 

Peter Smith is CFO and COO of CLS.

Kim Colby is Director of the Center for Law and Religious Freedom.

Mike Schutt is Director of CLS Attorney Ministries and Law Student Ministries.

Brent Amato is CLS Chicagoland staff and former CLS Board President.

Stephanie Luck is a CLS member, volunteer, and consultant to the ministry.

Ken Lui is Director of Christian Legal Aid and is featured on Episode 44.

For more information on CLS and it's ministries, visit our website

Nov 9, 2015

As the Executive Director of the Christian Legal Society, David Nammo spends time with hundreds of lawyers and future lawyers every year. Mike Schutt begins this episode by asking him, "What are lawyers and students thinking-- what are they worried about these days?" 

The ensuing conversation touches on matters of ethics, habits, cultural pressures, temptation, the role of professional communities, the local congregation, and much more. Dave believes one of the central tasks of life in the law is to seek God. As we seek Him, we better understand our unique calling in the profession. 

Listen in and be encouraged 

David Nammo is the Executive Director and CEO of the Christian Legal Society. Mike Schutt is host of Cross & Gavel Audio and Director of Law Student Ministries and Attorney Ministries for CLS. 

For more information on CLS, visit

Episodes of C&G Audio previous to #35 are available at the CLS Website.