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The Cross & Gavel Podcast

A production of Christian Legal Society — focusing on the interaction between law, religion, and public policy, with an emphasis on building-up Christian students and attorneys to intelligently engage in public life and better love their neighbors. Hosted by Anton Sorkin (Director of Law Student Ministries)
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Oct 6, 2021

Scripture instructs believers to "be anxious for nothing," creating the illusion that how we respond to stress is entirely a product of personal agency. Our guest today pushes back on this notion, calling for a holistic vision of anxiety rooted in theology and science. Dr. Matthew Lapine has written a wonderful book on the topic, and an accessible article for Christianity Today (here). For more, check out his website and his Twitter account (@matthewalapine).

 

 

JOIN US this month in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento. A Special Thanks to Nick and Ashley Barnett for their contribution in making this podcast possible.

Sep 22, 2021

Every Sunday, pastors across the nation are telling their congregants to leave the stresses of work behind and focus instead on Jesus. Here to discuss this separation between work and worship, and how the church can do a better job in promoting the integration therein, is Matthew Kaemingk – assistant professor, director of the Richard John Mouw Institute of Faith and Public Life, and associate dean of Fuller Theological Seminary in Houston, Texas. Find his work here and here. Purchase his books on work + worship, immigration, and political theology today [link]. Find him on Twitter at @matthewkaemingk.

 

 

JOIN US this October in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento. A Special Thanks to Nick and Ashley Barnett for their contribution in making this podcast possible.

Sep 8, 2021

In 1943, a German U-Boat attacked an American ship off the coast of Greenland. In the moments thereafter, courage and panic proved to be the currency of choice; some, succumbing to the moment in sheer terror. While others, embodying the sacrificial tenor of true heroes, gave their lives to save their friends. Here to discuss the sinking of the USS Dorchester and the awe-inspiring rescue that followed is law professor and founding director of the religious freedom clinic at the University of Texas, Steven T. Collis. Buy his book, The Immortals, today; and, follow his work at the law school.

 

 

JOIN US this October in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento. A Special Thanks to Nick and Ashley Barnett for their contribution in making this podcast possible.

Aug 25, 2021

The rampant flood of misinformation has made it increasingly difficult to be a member of the reality based community. Here to diagnose this problem and to offer a solution is senior fellow at the Brookings Institute and contributing writer for The Atlantic, Jonathan Rauch. Discover his writing and follow him on Twitter at @jon_rauch. Purchase his important new book – The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth today!

 

 

JOIN US this October in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento. A Special Thanks to Nick and Ashley Barnett for their contribution in making this podcast possible.

Aug 11, 2021

It's no secret that religion of late has lost its luster in the eyes of many Americans. Cast into relative disrepute for seemingly disrupting the momentum in the fight for equality, religion is no longer seen as the preeminent value once deemed by both political parties. Joining the show today to discuss these issues is the national religion reporter at Deseret News: Kelsey Dallas. Read her articles and subscribe to her newsletter today to keep up with the latest developments.

 

 

JOIN US this October in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.

Jul 28, 2021

Another term, another Supreme Court review! Kim Colby and I talk about the cases that impacted the state of religious liberty in America and what the future may bring. Learn more about her work at CLS' Center for Law & Religious Freedom here.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.

Jul 14, 2021

Joining us today to talk about conservative Christianity and racial identity in the segregation era is historian Daniel Bare. We talk about the fundamentalist tradition in the early twentieth century and why the influence of the black church was lost during this period. For a sample, read his article in Christianity Today entitled The Uneasy Conscience of Black Fundamentalism and check out the review of his book from historian Thomas Kidd. 

 

Learn more about Daniel in his bio for Texas A&M and on Twitter via @Daniel_Bare. But, most importantly, buy his book today through NYU Press.

 

Finally, JOIN US this October in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

Episode produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.

Jun 30, 2021

From the Book of Numbers to the storming of the Capitol, Andrew L. Whitehead joins us today to discuss Christian Nationalism and its impact on American religion. His new book, with co-author Samuel Perry, offers a seminal sociological study for understanding this new movement, including the various ways Christian Nationalists think, vote, and manifest their desires for a renewed Christian America.

 

To learn more about the work that Andrew is doing, check out his bio, his new book, and follow him on Twitter at @ndrewwhitehead.

 

Finally . . . join us this October in San Antonio for the CLS National Conference. This year's event will feature Lee Strobel, Ruth Okediji, James K.A. Smith, and Laudir Lugo. Register today.

 

[This episode has been produced by Josh Deng. Music comes from Vexento.]

Jan 16, 2021

Volume 4 of "Small Brains on Big Books" features Drew Nelson and Mike Schutt discussing Beowulf. You'll love this discussion, even if you didn't love Beowulf in High School. 

Andrew Nelson is preacher at Southside Church of Christ in Mount Pleasant Texas, and Mike Schutt is the host of Cross and Gavel audio, Executive Director of Worldview Academy, and Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity Law School.

Oct 6, 2020

Join host Mike Schutt, Law Student Ministries Communications Coordinator Joan McElveen, Pepperdine 3L Reed Bartley, and law student leaders from other law schools across the country, as they share and discuss virtual meetings that work. 

Sep 29, 2020

Listen in on excerpts from our first-ever national Law Student Leaders' Summit, featuring an introduction to Law Student Ministries, an overview of Christian Legal Society's four ministries, an exhortation on the calling of the leader, and some questions and sharing by campus leaders from all over the country. 

Sep 12, 2020

On Wednesday, September 9, the Department of Education announced a new rule that will protect religious groups meeting on public university campuses. Kim Colby, the director of the Center for Law and Religious Freedom at Christian Legal Society, lays out why the regulation was necessary, and what it will mean for students. 

The Department's announcement is here

Aug 24, 2020

Join Drew Nelson and Mike Schutt as they discuss the insights and admonitions of Rod Dreher‘s 2017 The Benedict Option. The book has been widely discussed, and rightly so, in Christian circles since its publication, and, as Drew and Mike discuss, Dreher’s challenge to the Church to be the Church is a welcome one, regardless of the relative dangers of secular culture. Yet the book’s insights on that score are helpful, too, and Drew and Mike highlight Dreher's key insights on politics, education, and technology as they relate to his main thesis.

Andrew Nelson is preacher at Southside Church of Christ in Mount Pleasant Texas, and Mike Schutt is the host of Cross and gavel audio, the director of Christian Legal Society’s Law Student Ministries, and Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity Law School.

Jul 3, 2020

Kim Colby and Reed Smith of the Center for Law and Religious Freedom unpack the troubling Supreme Court decision in Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia, handed down June 15. Justice Gorsuch seems to abandon his vaunted "textualism" in favor of a convoluted "literalism" with disastrous results. This is part three of three episodes discussing the important Supreme Court decisions of the last three weeks. 

Between June 15 and June 30, 2020, the US Supreme Court handed down three significant decisions of critical interest to religious conservatives. Colby and Smith join host Mike Schutt to discuss each case. Their conversation is divided into three episodes, one for each case. 

Episode 92 features Kim Colby on Espinoza v. Montana Dept of Revenue, episode 93 focuses on June Medical Services v. Russo with Reed Smith, and episode 94 unpacks Bostock v. Clayton County, GA, a particularly troubling case on the meaning of the word "sex" in Title VII. 

Kim Colby | Christian Legal SocietyReed Smith | Christian Legal Society

Kim Colby is Director of the Christian Legal Society'sCenter for Law and Religious Freedom, and Reed Smith is the Center's Director of Litigation.

Jul 3, 2020

Between June 15 and June 30, 2020, the US Supreme Court handed down three significant decisions of critical interest to religious conservatives. Kim Colby and Reed Smith, attorneys at the Center for Law & Religious Freedom, join host Mike Schutt to discuss each case. Their conversation is divided into three episodes, one for each case. 

Episode 92 features Kim Colby on Espinoza v. Montana Dept of Revenue, episode 93 focuses on June Medical Services v. Russo with Reed Smith, and episode 94 unpacks Bostock v. Clayton County, GA. 

Kim Colby | Christian Legal SocietyReed Smith | Christian Legal Society

Kim Colby is Director of the Christian Legal Society'sCenter for Law and Religious Freedom, and Reed Smith is the Center's Director of Litigation. 

Jul 3, 2020

Between June 15 and June 30, 2020, the US Supreme Court handed down three significant decisions of critical interest to religious conservatives. Kim Colby and Reed Smith, attorneys at the Center for Law & Religious Freedom, join host Mike Schutt to discuss each case. Their conversation is divided into three episodes, one for each case. 

Episode 92 features Kim Colby on Espinoza v. Montana Dept of Revenue, episode 93 focuses on June Medical Services v. Russo with Reed Smith, and episode 94 unpacks Bostock v. Clayton County, GA. 

Kim Colby | Christian Legal SocietyReed Smith | Christian Legal Society

Kim Colby is Director of the Christian Legal Society's Center for Law and Religious Freedom, and Reed Smith is the Center's Director of Litigation. 

Jun 9, 2020

Kim Colby, Director of the Center for Law & Religious Freedom, says that the Supreme Court will decide at least eight important religious freedom cases between now and next June. This term and next are "dream terms," she says, for religious freedom lawyers and court watchers.

In this episode, she highlights five of these cases, beginning with the "church re-opening" case, South Bay United Pentecostal Church v. Newsom, decided on an emergency appeal earlier this month ("I am concerned and disappointed, but not flipping out," she says of Chief Justice Roberts's concurring opinion). From there, she discusses the import of four major cases that have been argued or will be argued later this year:

  • Espinoza v. Montana Department of Revenue. She expects an announcement of the decision any day now, and she predicts a win for religious freedom;
  • Fulton v. City of Philadelphia, "an extremely important case" in which the Center filed an amicus brief;
  • St. James School v. Biel/Our Lady of Guadalupe v. Morrissey-Berru, consolidated and addressing an issue that tests the limits of the unanimous decision in the 2012 Hosanna-Tabor case; 
  • Little Sisters of the Poor v. Azar, featuring the order's third trip to the Supreme Court. 

Kim Colby

It's always a great time when Kim Colby visits Cross & Gavel. She is the director of Christian Legal Society’s Center for Law and Religious Freedom , where she has worked since graduating from Harvard Law School in 1981. She has represented religious groups in several appellate cases, including two cases heard by the United States Supreme Court. She has filed numerous amicus briefs in federal and state courts. Ms. Colby has prepared several CLS publications addressing issues about religious expression in public schools, including released time programs, implementation of the Equal Access Act, and teachers’ religious expression.

Visit the Center's website for resources on its first amendment work. 

Cross & Gavel is a production of Trinity Law School and Christian Legal Society. Mike Schutt is director of Law Student Ministries for CLS and Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity. 

May 28, 2020

Dr. Drew Trotter, executive director of the Consortium of Christian Study Centers, is a film critic who understands the role that movies play in shaping us as a society. His lecture, The Movies and America: What the Nominees for Best Picture Tell Us About Ourselves, is an annual favorite around the country. 

In this episode, Dr. Trotter sits down with host Mike Schutt to discuss the nominees for best picture. They discuss how we love our neighbors through watching movies, how to better understand what we watch, and the issue of difficult or graphic content in today's movies. They also consider what these nominees might tell us about ourselves. 

Drew Trotter is the Executive Director of the Consortium of Christian Study Centers. He was for twenty-two years the Executive Director and President of the Center for Christian Study in Charlottesville, VA. Drew has written on film and popular culture for over thirty years in such publications as Books & CultureChristianity Today and Critique, and in the field of Biblical studies. For over twenty years, he has presented a seminar entitled Show and Tell: How to View a Movie Responsibly, helping laypeople and students in churches, Christian college and secular university environments understand this powerful medium and how to think about its influence both on the individual and the society. He has taught seminars on popular culture, university education in America today, a Biblical model of discipleship and how to interpret the Scriptures. Drew has three sons, two daughters-in-law and six grandchildren and lives with his wife of forty-five years, Marie, in Charlottesville, VA. 

Mike Schutt is host of the Cross & Gavel Podcast. He is Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity Law School, Director of the Institute for Christian Legal Studies, and director of Law Student Ministries at Christian Legal Society. He is the editor in chief of the Journal of Christian Legal Thought and director of the CLS Law School Fellows program. 

May 19, 2020

Pastor Mark Bertrand has turned to the Psalms for his sermon texts during the global pandemic, and he joins Mike Schutt to discuss insights and encouragement from this rich source. You'll be encouraged as Mark explores how the "Songbook of the Church" speaks to us about lessons in crisis, sources of hope in trial, and the joys inherent in the life of faith.

J. Mark Bertrand is the pastor of Grace Presbyterian Church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. He is also a novelist and author, and he teaches on the Worldview Academy faculty. His crime noir works are Back on Murder, Pattern of Wounds,and Nothing to Hide. His book [Re]Thinking Worldview: Learning to Think, Live, and Speak in this World (Crossway 2007) is a great primer on Christian thought and action. He blogs at the world-renowned Bible Design Blog, sharing thoughts and photos on a multitude of design issues.

His real claim to fame is that he was interviewed by Ken Myers on Mars Hill Audio Journal, volume 90, which also features Mike Schutt discussing Redeeming Law

Mark was also a guest on Episode 46 of Cross & Gavel, one of the most popular episodes in the podcast's history. More recently, he joined Mike to discuss the "New Moralism" in Episode 70 and law and government on Episode 73. 

Cross and Gavel is a project of Trinity Law School and Christian Legal Society.

May 5, 2020

Host Mike Schutt again welcomes East Texas preacher Drew Nelson to the podcast to discuss The Odyssey, Homer's ancient epic poem about . . . well, wait. What is it about? 

Mike and Drew explore that question and more-- including why good Christians should read good pagan literature and why you might like The Odyssey-- as they highlight its major themes and give some background to the poem. Their hope is that a couple of regular guys reading big books might encourage other regular folks to do the same.   

Drew Nelson is preacher at Southside Church of Christ in Mount Pleasant, TX, and Mike Schutt is host of the Cross & Gavel podcast, director of Christian Legal Society's Law Student Ministries, and Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity Law School.

Cross & Gavel is a project of Trinity Law and CLS.

Apr 24, 2020

Greg Rummel, President and CEO of Rummel Agency in Frankenmuth, Michigan, has a word of encouragement for us in this global pandemic: God's got this, too.

Listen in as Greg shares with host Mike Schutt how battling cancer helped hm to think well about living in difficult times-- and to focus on what is really important. You'll be encouraged!

Cross & Gavel podcast is a project of Christian Legal Society and Trinity Law School

   

Apr 14, 2020

"The efficiency brought by new forms of technology has just made us demand more of one another," says Myron Steeves, dean of Trinity Law School. "Our important innovations sometimes give us the opposite of what we desire."

In this episode, Dean Steeves and Mike Schutt explore the topic of technology and the tyranny of time. If advances in technology and greater efficiency in our lives don't make us better people all by themselves, why do we keep chasing them as ends in and of themselves? Is too much of a good thing still good? Join the conversation as they ask these questions and others! 

Cross & Gavel is a project of Trinity Law School and Christian Legal Society

Mar 31, 2020

Carl Caton is the founder and president of the San Antonio Marriage Initiative, a ministry focused on bringing help and hope to the city of San Antonio. Carl and his team, in partnership with volunteers around Texas, seek to network, equip, and mobilize the local church community to strengthen marriages in the city.

One of the organization's key strategies is to "identify best practices and resources" and to "collaborate with like-minded individuals who will deploy that knowledge throughout the local faith community." This, amazingly, includes the family law community. 

Listen in as Carl describes a vision for the family that includes reliance on the expertise of lawyers, judges, and others invested in the family law system. Carl also sees the need to minister to and encourage those attorneys and judges in the system, who see, day after day, the toll taken divorce and custody battles. His compassion for the legal professionals runs deep in his own history, and listeners will be inspired by his wisdom for those seeking to do redemptive work in this field. Carl Caton's message is a message of hope and redemption in a troubled world and profession. 

For more information on the San Antonio Marriage Initiative, visit their website

Mike Schutt is host of Cross & Gavel and is Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity Law School and director of Law Student Ministries for Christian Legal Society

Mar 14, 2020

Join host Mike Schutt as he welcomes local preacher Drew Nelson to the podcast to talk about the classic "On the Incarnation," by Saint Athanasius, 4th Century Bishop of Alexandria. 

As a young man, Athanasius attended the Council of Nicea and spent the rest of his life standing firm against the Arian heresy that remained popular, despite its condemnation by Nicea. 

On the Incarnation is a wide-ranging apologetic regarding the eternal Son of God taking on flesh to reveal the Father and save humanity. 

Drew and Mike read the book with their Wednesday morning men's group, and they report on their impressions. 

Drew Nelson in preacher at Southside Church of Christ in Mount Pleasant, TX, and Mike Schutt is host of the Cross & Gavel podcast, director of Christian Legal Society's Law Student Ministries, and Clinical Associate Professor at Trinity Law School.

Cross & Gavel is a project of Trinity Law and CLS.  

Feb 27, 2020

The CLS Law School Fellows program is designed to build a community of scholars around the topics of professional formation, vocational stewardship, and Christian jurisprudence. Each year, CLS gathers a group of students in Washington, DC for an intense week of lectures, mentoring, discussion, and fellowship. CLS pays the expenses of accepted candidates. 

In this episode of Cross & Gavel, Fellows Founding Director Mike Schutt discusses the program with CLS CEO David Nammo, Trinity Law School Dean and Fellows faculty member Myron Steeves, and two 2018 Fellows, Ronia Dubbaneh and Paulina Belovarski, who are both attorneys. 

For more information on the Fellows program, visit the website. Rising 1Ls and 2Ls should apply before midnight on March 1!

Cross & Gavel Audio is a cooperative project of Christian Legal Society and Trinity Law School. 

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